I so much didn’t want to touch this case in North Carolina in which a judge ordered children into public school. It seemed to me from the beginning to be a family matter…a divorce case. A case in which the parents couldn’t agree on the education of their minor children for whatever reason. I wasn’t really surprised that the judge would side with the father who wanted the children in public school, but as annoying as that may be, it didn’t seem precedent setting for those of us who plan to stay out of custody battles with estranged spouses.
And as a homeschooler, I too am generally annoyed at comments such as those the judge reportedly made to WorldNetDaily:
The judge, when contacted by WND, explained his goal in ordering the children to register and attend a public school was to make sure they have a “more well-rounded education.” WND
But now that I reluctantly took the time to read the court order (contested as it is…but just out of curiosity, what does “shock and awe” mean in this context? ), it appears that the judge did not “[put] his judgment in place of the mother’s” so much as he put the father’s judgment in place of the mother’s.
And this is what really bothers me about the attention this case is receiving. On the one hand, I think I agree with Tammy of Just Enough and Nothing More. Like all rulings, editorials and politician’s comments, these stories race through homeschool circles at an amazing rate, demonstrating the speed and power of our
“Emergency Broadcast System.” I can hear the monotone, masculine voice over my radio now:
This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. If this had been an actual emergency…
I’m not sure that the overreaction to these kinds of stories “reinforce[s] the general public’s idea that homeschoolers are bunch of crazy lunatics.” For that to happen, people outside of our tight little homeschooling circle have to be aware of the story and the reaction. And in my experience, it just isn’t on most people’s radar.
But the story does leave me uncomfortable and I think there is more danger to running with these stories too quickly, before the dust has settled and the facts are known…and it isn’t the “image” that makes me uncomfortable.
First, what about the father? I realize he is supposedly in an adulterous relationship, and while that is certainly grounds for divorce, I don’t know that it necessarily negates his interest in how his children are raised. He doesn’t want them homeschooled, apparently has never really wanted them homeschooled, and is even more concerned because of this church his wife is attending.
I am not going to step in the middle of that and say who is right or wrong. It would be nice if parents, even divorcing parents, could come to an agreement without the court getting involved. But obviously they can’t, or the dockets of our family courts would be significantly shorter.
But why do we, as complete and total strangers, side automatically with the mother? Why do we show no compassion for the father’s concerns about the education of his own children? Why do we jump on what the judge stated when it was lifted directly from the concerns of the father with home education? I may disagree with the father on the general effectiveness of homeschooling, but I’m not the one responsible for his children. I don’t know what the law is in North Carolina, but here in Nebraska both parents have to sign the homeschool paperwork and if one refuses, the child may not be homeschooled. Homeschool advocates have fought this for some time, but it still bothers me that we are so willing to negate the “other” parent’s will in the interest of homeschool advocacy.
And second is something of real concern to me. In abuse case after abuse case, our defense of homeschooling is that abuse is a social issue, not an educational one. That increased regulation will only put an unnecessary burden on homeschooling families while doing nothing to help children in abusive situations. That we live in our communities and that abuse can be spotted and reported by people other than teachers including friends, family, doctors and neighbors.
Then a case comes to court in which the father has concerns about his children’s homeschooling. It goes a little beyond simply believing children are better off in public school, although that is really all the reason a parent needs to opt to place a child in public school. He backs this concern up with testimony from other people in the community about what his wife’s church is like. And we are going to not only jump on the judge for a bias against homeschooling but for a bias against religion as well?
I’m not sure that it is wise to so reflexively defend homeschooling that we are willing to disregard the testimonies of people close to the situation who may be raising valid concerns not with homeschooling in general but with a particular situation. Maybe the decision is the best possible in the situation. Most of us don’t really know.
Welcome to Roscommon Acres, my little home in the country. I write here about life more abundantly, from the joy of a baby’s smile to the almost unbearable grief of losing a son. I am seeking beauty instead of ashes, the oil of joy instead of mourning, a garment of praise instead of the spirit of despair (Isaiah 61:3).
Just place "Tiggy" in the subject line.
“But the story does leave me uncomfortable and I think there is more danger to running with these stories too quickly, before the dust has settled and the facts are known…and it isn’t the “image” that makes me uncomfortable.”
Agreed, and this applies to all media sources.
Very true. I think we’d all be better off to remember we only “know” what we’ve been told, regardless of the source.
It is true this wasn’t primarily a ‘homeschooling case’. My main concern was that the judge didn’t see fit to preserve the status quo for the kids, even though they were said to be ‘thriving’. It’s SOP in custody cases to disrupt the children’s lives as little as possible. Giving the kids a more ‘well rounded education’ just isn’t a compelling argument, IMO, and neither is being involved in a ‘weird’ church.
I think a fair comparison would be if the mother were a pagan or atheist, and the father wanted the kids in school to expose them to opposing viewpoints, those communities would feel a bit insulted- after all, what is ‘wrong’ with being a pagan that it needs to be ‘fixed’ when the kids are doing so well at home? It isn’t that the father’s desires shouldn’t be considered, but that the court should be ruling in the best interests of the children, and I don’t perceive any compelling reason to uproot their lives even more than it already is.
There have been a few calm voices in the midst of this yet another homeschool tempest in a keyboard, and I agree that when homeschoolers sound hysterical about every little thing, it doesn’t do the reputation of the home education community any favors.
But then I still get forwarded emails about the dangers of deodorant. 8/
Dana, I thought all along this was a divorce case and the judge ruled in favor of what is a cultural norm. I have been divorce. There were no kids involved, just money. But, that is how divorce works.
The court orders demonstrate that the judge was not so much ruling against homeschooling as he was ruling against the mother’s ability to make sound judgment. It does seem odd that the mother is so invested in a church that is almost 3000 miles away from her home. Weird…
Rich mentioned the case a week or two ago, whenever it broke. I looked at an article or two, saw it was part of a divorce case and moved on. I think that the divorce changes the dynamic of the case and we should, like you suggest, let the dust settle before we go nuts.
While I don’t pretend to know anything about the case, I too can’t help but think Sunniemom is at least a tad right when she says the response might have been different if “a pagan or atheist” has been the ones homeschooling.
After reading the court order, the issue seems to be less about homeschooling and way more about the mother’s involvement with the Sound Doctrine cult. Thanks for linking to the court order. I was livid when I first heard about this and all I read about was the father being an adulterer. Brief mention was made about his concerns with her church, but when you read the court order with all the testimony of friends and family, it seems the church is the big issue.
I guess a big worry for homeschoolers is that individual cases turn into indictments against all homeschooling.
“I too can’t help but think Sunniemom is at least a tad right when she says the response might have been different if ‘a pagan or atheist’ has been the ones homeschooling.”
It sure would have been, starting with World Net Daily and conservative Christian homeschoolers everywhere. Which just goes to show how much of what we confuse as education politics and protecting our home education freedoms, is really about religion.
I think the reason everyone is automatically siding with the mother is because the father had an affair, and the assumption is that he doesn’t want to be financially responsible for keeping the mother home to homeschool. Since he abandoned the relationship to seek a new partner, it’s easy to blame him for lack of concern over the family he left behind. But, like you said, we really don’t know that.
I do think that if the dad wants them in ps so bad that he can take all the stupid homework assignments and phone calls. If I were the judge, his half of the “visitation” and stuff can happen between 3 and 7 p.m. during which homework, all baths, extracurricular activities and preparation for bedtime must occur. (Yeah, good luck with that.)
I am a public school parent as well as a homeschooling one, and I can tell you that expecting kids to do homework and “just” have papers signed and “just” go over the spelling words, “just” make their lunches for the next day, etc. … you know… stuff that should “just” take a few minutes? Is an awful thing to go through with younger children who are tired from a long day at school.
Anyway… the judge might or might NOT be right. I do wonder, though, when I hear of these biases and cases like the Long family that it has less to do with homeschooling than dysfunctional families that wind up in court one way or another, and the judge does his best to figure out what to do. :[
Mrs C makes an interesting point — so we could argue that because of these extraordinary demands of public school on the homelife of young children, custody courts should start from the presumption that in the best interest of all children of divorce, home education is best!
I think a point can be made that 1) the kids appear to be doing fine, academically at least and 2) since the mom is the one caring for them through the school hours, her decision should provide more weight.
But the father’s concern was not with homeschooling alone…and like Julie, I’m not terribly surprised a judge would opt for the cultural norm when there is a dispute. But that still isn’t about homeschooling, but about these children.
Ouch, about point one — we who ordinarily object to mere test scores and grade levels for proving kids are “doing fine academically” might want to be very careful and self-aware about going on the record switching sides now, even out of mom-empathy.
OK, point taken. My only point was that the mom’s ability to homeschool was never in question. At the same time, however, I think we all need to be prepared for the fact that if we were to end up in court for some reason, we will be judged by society’s standards of performance. The further away from that model we are, the more prepared we need to be to present the case.
Unfortunately, it is much easier to point to a test score than educate the court on philosophical differences.
No argument there!
I think the mom’s whole case presentation has been inadvisably and almost bizarrely outside society’s standards on every factual, procedural and even decorum count –libeling the judge while he’s still deliberating for instance — and that’s what hurt her outcome the most.
I don’t mean that he got mad and decided to get even or punish her, to the contrary. What I mean is that it seems he started out thinking she was academically capable of home-educating, until she increasingly made a case against herself as capable of mainstream reason and social function, which would up casting strong doubt on her ability to model and “teach” good citizenship much less reason,logic and objective inquiry to her children. Therefore making school seem (to him as the responsbile party to decide) like a needed addition to the children’s academic education.
According to hsinjustice the Mother claims the visitation schedule of equally divided time made it impossible for her to homeschool. Which leaves me wondering if the Mother and her supporters intended for the Father to have any time with his kids.
Also it’ my understanding that she is the one who filed for divorce. I think the judge’s ruling was more about insuring that both parents had an equal say in the children’s upbringing and equal time with the children then it was about which educational choice he thought was better homeschooling or public school.
My only point was that the mom’s ability to homeschool was never in question.
*******
I question her ability to hs.
I question her ability to function.
As did her husband, apparently, and the judge.
Joining up with a cult is not a good signal that your homeschooling is going well.
Nance
But to your point, Dana — yes. We shouldn’t automatically side with the Mom or with the homeschooler.
It’s probably not our business to side with anyone.
Nance
Homeschooling and affair aside – there is, believe it or not, a religious freedom issue here. As a Christian – a protestant, I may not agree with the beliefs out there of all religions (including some of the larger well known ones). In fact, a couple of them seem a little weird to me. So, because this woman belongs to a church that some say is a cult, she gets a mental eval thrust upon her.
Then, Potentially, it shows that she has these “crazy Christian” beliefs (media really tries to push it so that we look like nut jobs if we are any kind of conservative Christian). The world (and courts) are not necessarily friendly to Christians these days.
I have no idea what this woman’s church is or is not teaching, so I have no idea how it differentiates from my own conservative, traditional views. I know that our views do not agree with that of my husband’s family. But then, many in his extended family think that tithing regularly to one’s church means one is in a cult…. so we won’t go there (shaking my head still from when I first heard that from another family member). I suppose they might categorize us as nut jobs as well, KWIM?
Anyway, so there are 2 issues at hand with this case. I have no idea if this kind of thing goes on with many divorce cases and we just do not ever hear about it. But considering that the California homeschooling debacle was not even a divorce case, I wonder…
What about the children’s “religious freedom” then?
JJ Ross -
Traditionally, children follow in whatever religion that their parents do until they are adults – then they can decide what they and their family will do (look backwards a few thousand years for reference –
. Kind of goes with the idea raising of the children in the way a parent sees fit. The children get “religious freedom” when they become adults. They are not old enough (nor experienced/educated enough) to make an educated decision outside of their parents wisdom until they are adults (and some of them not even then these days). I suppose, if the children are going to PS, they will then also be exposed to the religion of humanism.
I am bothered by this case, but not by the case itself. I believe it is quit common in cases of divorce of homeschool parents that the kids are sent to school , by the judge or someone else. That does not bother me.
I do not feel like my rights are being threatened by a judge, nor do I feel like anyone in NC’s rights are being threatened.
What bothers me is the way that homeschoolers themselves have handled this. They have turned it into a world wide gossip session. CHRISTIAN homeschoolers have done this, it makes me mad and ashamed.
Nice job, Dana. I was amazed at how quickly the judge and father were demonized on very little information.
Melisa, I didn’t see anything except explicit support for “freedom of religion” in the judge’s order, then.
But education choice and academic freedom of all kinds, particularly homeschooling, is not dependent on religious freedom for its justification and legal protections. (They can even be at odds with each other, as I think we see in this case, in school library book ban movements, creationist incursions into public school texbooks and science class, etc.)
JJ Ross -
I guess I am confused about what you are either looking at or commenting on, then. I got the impression from her website that the mental testing was ordered because of the husband’s concern about the religious group she is affiliated with. Perhaps I misunderstood what it said. I got the same impression that supposedly was part of the reason the husband wanted the children in PS – because of those same concerns. Sorry if I misread something then.
Wow, I’ve missed some nice comments in my brief vacation. But I’m sitting in a hotel room with a baby who does not want to sleep so I think I’ll compose thoughts and answer tomorrow.
Thank you, everyone!
Dana,
I agree that there also seems to be a reflex action on the part of homeschool advocacy. I also believe that the Nebraska law is a good one. If both parents, at least in the case of custodial parents, don’t agree then no, you don’t homeschool. Period.
I don’t think this is a ruling against homeschooling. I’d prefer the courts not to be involved it is too bad they couldn’t work that out. Honestly homeschooling is tough enough in a nuclear family… it is even tougher with single parent households and not everybody is up for that task.
What has bothered me about this case is the kneejerk reaction to say, “Well, the children test above grade level – they are doing well!” What about the many homeschooled children who do not test above grade level? Should they just be sent to school? Would we be less sympathetic to the homeschooling then?
“it didn’t seem precedent setting for those of us who plan to stay out of custody battles with estranged spouses.”
You know, neither did I plan to be in a custody battle with an estranged spouse…be very careful.
Talk to a lawyer…20 years ago the laws were very different and a man in the position of this man, and my children’s father, would “walk away with nothing but the shirt on his back”–according to my divorce attorney.
Just today I was catching up on the winter “Court Report” from HSLDA. The erosion of parental rights and the legal consequences of elevating the “best interests of the children” were intelligently discussed.
While I applaud you for recognizing that “it appears that the judge did not “[put] his judgment in place of the mother’s” so much as he put the father’s judgment in place of the mother’s.”, I urge to to reconsider the ramifications of this type of judgement before you lose more of your already dying freedoms.
Please consider this: If both parents do not agree on sending the child to public school (i.e. If both parents do not sign papers releasing the child into the “custody” of the public schools)
THEN…. Oh, yeah- the child is sent to public school anyways (so what’s all this talk about “caring/valuing the opinion/wishes of the “other parent”… That doesn’t apply when the “other” parent’s ideas fall outside the “mainstream/traditional” (public school has not really been mainstream or traditional for very long in the scope of history, actually.) current societal ideals? So much for equal rights being upheld… As for “putting the father’s judgment in place of the mother’s” (?!) I don’t know about the cult or the other issues- but she devoted all of her time to her children, and it’s depressing to me to see that counted for nothing… being “average/normal/everyday” makes someone a better parent? Is that true? I keep hearing “the kids need to be socialized”/ we don’t like communism from the same camps… It’s so bizarre… I’m not a communist, and those making the accusations seem to be the very same ones advocating
for “the same (free) education for all” (i.e. the public schools) What a strange world we live in! I can’t help but agree with “guest, March 31st” upon the “no one plans this type of occasion” comment, as well as changing laws/freedoms/interpretations of parental/legal rights… in this case, the lesser weight of the mother’s rights/decisions/opinions/wants for her own children.
Sarah, my only point is that this is a difficult case. Both parents have an interest in the education of their children, and because they can’t agree the court is being asked to make the decision.
You haven’t heard anything about socialization, communism or anything like it around here. This blog is entirely pro-homeschooling. I just don’t think this particular case is about all our homeschooling freedoms.
It is about decisions being made that can’t possibly please all parties.