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	<title>Comments on: Unity in diversity</title>
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	<description>Life more abundantly</description>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://roscommonacres.com/2007/12/unity-in-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-4124</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:21:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=742#comment-4124</guid>
		<description>Thank you, Stephanie!  I agree...unity is easier on the state level.  It really is where I think the whole discussion belongs, because education should be a state issue.  I also think that COD made a very good point about the level of threat being related.  So long as we are not threatened, we don&#039;t have a huge reason to try to find what we want to unite on.  In Germany, the degree to which the varying groups are able to work together and support each other amazes me...but then they are under threat and homeschoolers, regardless of their religious and educational views are being forced to flee the country.

I think it is perhaps a blessing that we are so secure in our liberties here that we don&#039;t need to worry about &quot;unity&quot; to that degree here.

There is a problem with homeschoolers being viewed as a single entity with one purpose.  But whose fault is it?  If you look at any minority group, you will see the same sorts of things.  All black people support the Democratic Party, don&#039;t they?  As do Hispanics?  The majority tends to stereotype minorities, force them in a box and latch onto anything that confirms the stereotype.

HSLDA has contributed to that, but that alone isn&#039;t really an issue I have with them.  At least I view it as sort of tangential to this discussion.

The media has as well.  Most reports confirm the stereotype and seem to have a measure of surprise when someone who isn&#039;t conservative and Christian homeschools.

There was another comment COD made over at unity&#039;s blog that I think might have something to do with it, too.  Christian homeschoolers generally do have a good number of things in common in our goals...we have a structure within our religion that helps us organize.  The statement of faith required by many is part of that because dissent is discouraged.  You can view that as you wish, but so long as it is private, I don&#039;t have any deep philosophical issues with that.

COD said something about his secular group being like herding cats...and I&#039;ve read other comments in the past about secular homeschoolers not having the need to &quot;be counted&quot; or &quot;march to the beat of a single drummer.&quot;  Such individualism is a wonderful part of being an American.  But it does (if a true characterization) lend difficulties to organization in the absence of a threat to force it.

Anyway, thank you very much for noticing that this wasn&#039;t really about the boycott.  That was only an illustration of the divide which exists in so many other ways.

(And my commenters are the coolest...I haven&#039;t had any conversations spiral that direction yet!)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, Stephanie!  I agree&#8230;unity is easier on the state level.  It really is where I think the whole discussion belongs, because education should be a state issue.  I also think that COD made a very good point about the level of threat being related.  So long as we are not threatened, we don&#8217;t have a huge reason to try to find what we want to unite on.  In Germany, the degree to which the varying groups are able to work together and support each other amazes me&#8230;but then they are under threat and homeschoolers, regardless of their religious and educational views are being forced to flee the country.</p>
<p>I think it is perhaps a blessing that we are so secure in our liberties here that we don&#8217;t need to worry about &#8220;unity&#8221; to that degree here.</p>
<p>There is a problem with homeschoolers being viewed as a single entity with one purpose.  But whose fault is it?  If you look at any minority group, you will see the same sorts of things.  All black people support the Democratic Party, don&#8217;t they?  As do Hispanics?  The majority tends to stereotype minorities, force them in a box and latch onto anything that confirms the stereotype.</p>
<p>HSLDA has contributed to that, but that alone isn&#8217;t really an issue I have with them.  At least I view it as sort of tangential to this discussion.</p>
<p>The media has as well.  Most reports confirm the stereotype and seem to have a measure of surprise when someone who isn&#8217;t conservative and Christian homeschools.</p>
<p>There was another comment COD made over at unity&#8217;s blog that I think might have something to do with it, too.  Christian homeschoolers generally do have a good number of things in common in our goals&#8230;we have a structure within our religion that helps us organize.  The statement of faith required by many is part of that because dissent is discouraged.  You can view that as you wish, but so long as it is private, I don&#8217;t have any deep philosophical issues with that.</p>
<p>COD said something about his secular group being like herding cats&#8230;and I&#8217;ve read other comments in the past about secular homeschoolers not having the need to &#8220;be counted&#8221; or &#8220;march to the beat of a single drummer.&#8221;  Such individualism is a wonderful part of being an American.  But it does (if a true characterization) lend difficulties to organization in the absence of a threat to force it.</p>
<p>Anyway, thank you very much for noticing that this wasn&#8217;t really about the boycott.  That was only an illustration of the divide which exists in so many other ways.</p>
<p>(And my commenters are the coolest&#8230;I haven&#8217;t had any conversations spiral that direction yet!)</p>
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		<title>By: Stephanie</title>
		<link>http://roscommonacres.com/2007/12/unity-in-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-4123</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephanie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=742#comment-4123</guid>
		<description>We represent two different movements with two different philosophical foundations. There has never been unity.
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;

Actually Dana, this is not exactly true. And I think that this is something that a lot of us &quot;newer&quot; (and I include myself in that category even though we have been doing this for 6 years) homeschoolers don&#039;t fully appreciate and something that I think that Unity and Diversity is trying to highlight so that it is not lost.

In talking with friends of mine who have been involved in homeschooling at a statewide level here in Virginia for a LONG time, they said that there was definitely more unity between both camps in the beginning, mainly because there was no internet so people had fewer options for finding people. And there was a shift when HSLDA came onto the scene (as well as the Tax Reform Act of 1986 which in effect closed a lot of church based private schools and led to an influx of Christian homeschoolers)...statewide groups associated themselves with HSLDA and gradually became more exclusive. Statement of faith groups became more prominent and previously inclusive groups either went under or lost many members. I have this from a very trusted friend of mine who most definitely is NOT anti-Christian.

The non-unity of the groups is much bigger than the TOS boycott to be honest with you. Most homeschoolers who are not in the blogosphere have never even heard of it. It really is small potatoes although it does illustrate the divide.

To me the bigger issue is how homeschooling is not seen as a diverse population...it is seen as being dominated by one religion and one political party and that just is not the case.

We have found here in Virginia that you can unite homeschoolers if you focus *only* on homeschool issues. We have an inclusive statewide homeschool organization that was founded by an evangelical Christian as a result of the increase in exclusivity that I mentioned above. The board has had evangelical Christians, non-evangelical Christians, Muslims, Jews, UUs, and atheists. They take no stands on issues outside of homeschooling (which IMO is where HSLDA does the greatest harm to homeschooling). They promote homeschooling as being made up of a diverse population &quot;whose interests are served when homeschoolers are seen by government, news media, and the public as a diverse people united in their love of their children and in their valuing freedom to teach and learn at home.&quot;

And it works. Here in Virginia, the inclusive statewide organization, the religious statewide organization and yes, even HSLDA have been able to put aside their differences and work together to improve homeschool freedoms (in 2006 we had no less than 3 good for homeschool law changes passed). Do they always agree ? Nope. But there is an amicability that was not there in previous years and I see that as a good thing.

I personally think that unity is easier to achieve  at a state level than at a national level (I also feel this about homeschool advocacy).

I will also say that I personally do not care for the often dismissive tone that I hear from both sides of the aisle, both Christian homeschoolers and liberal homeschoolers. Which is a shame. Because it immediately shuts down communication and sets up an &quot;us vs. them&quot; situation from which nothing can be accomplished.

I don&#039;t usually jump into comment debates but I was pleasantly surprised that this one was an actual *discussion* and that it was able to keep its civil tone. I just discovered your blog Dana and I have been really enjoying it.  Thank you for the wonderful conversation. Much food for thought.

Sorry for the book...I may need to explore this issue a bit further on my own blog...but not until after the holidays!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We represent two different movements with two different philosophical foundations. There has never been unity.<br />
&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</p>
<p>Actually Dana, this is not exactly true. And I think that this is something that a lot of us &#8220;newer&#8221; (and I include myself in that category even though we have been doing this for 6 years) homeschoolers don&#8217;t fully appreciate and something that I think that Unity and Diversity is trying to highlight so that it is not lost.</p>
<p>In talking with friends of mine who have been involved in homeschooling at a statewide level here in Virginia for a LONG time, they said that there was definitely more unity between both camps in the beginning, mainly because there was no internet so people had fewer options for finding people. And there was a shift when HSLDA came onto the scene (as well as the Tax Reform Act of 1986 which in effect closed a lot of church based private schools and led to an influx of Christian homeschoolers)&#8230;statewide groups associated themselves with HSLDA and gradually became more exclusive. Statement of faith groups became more prominent and previously inclusive groups either went under or lost many members. I have this from a very trusted friend of mine who most definitely is NOT anti-Christian.</p>
<p>The non-unity of the groups is much bigger than the TOS boycott to be honest with you. Most homeschoolers who are not in the blogosphere have never even heard of it. It really is small potatoes although it does illustrate the divide.</p>
<p>To me the bigger issue is how homeschooling is not seen as a diverse population&#8230;it is seen as being dominated by one religion and one political party and that just is not the case.</p>
<p>We have found here in Virginia that you can unite homeschoolers if you focus *only* on homeschool issues. We have an inclusive statewide homeschool organization that was founded by an evangelical Christian as a result of the increase in exclusivity that I mentioned above. The board has had evangelical Christians, non-evangelical Christians, Muslims, Jews, UUs, and atheists. They take no stands on issues outside of homeschooling (which IMO is where HSLDA does the greatest harm to homeschooling). They promote homeschooling as being made up of a diverse population &#8220;whose interests are served when homeschoolers are seen by government, news media, and the public as a diverse people united in their love of their children and in their valuing freedom to teach and learn at home.&#8221;</p>
<p>And it works. Here in Virginia, the inclusive statewide organization, the religious statewide organization and yes, even HSLDA have been able to put aside their differences and work together to improve homeschool freedoms (in 2006 we had no less than 3 good for homeschool law changes passed). Do they always agree ? Nope. But there is an amicability that was not there in previous years and I see that as a good thing.</p>
<p>I personally think that unity is easier to achieve  at a state level than at a national level (I also feel this about homeschool advocacy).</p>
<p>I will also say that I personally do not care for the often dismissive tone that I hear from both sides of the aisle, both Christian homeschoolers and liberal homeschoolers. Which is a shame. Because it immediately shuts down communication and sets up an &#8220;us vs. them&#8221; situation from which nothing can be accomplished.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t usually jump into comment debates but I was pleasantly surprised that this one was an actual *discussion* and that it was able to keep its civil tone. I just discovered your blog Dana and I have been really enjoying it.  Thank you for the wonderful conversation. Much food for thought.</p>
<p>Sorry for the book&#8230;I may need to explore this issue a bit further on my own blog&#8230;but not until after the holidays!</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://roscommonacres.com/2007/12/unity-in-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-4122</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 04:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=742#comment-4122</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I will have to ponder on this, as I ponder on the sound of one hand clapping.&lt;/em&gt;

Great line, Tammy!  I think that is the perfect summary.

I think you are right.  There is a societal divide reflected in homeschooling...and perhaps it is intensified.  After all, I would venture to guess that the vast majority of homeschoolers homeschool out of their deep seated convictions in something.  Whatever that reason is, it is at the core of what we believe and what we want to accomplish in the world.  It isn&#039;t something any of us will lay down for a political advantage or any other goal because that reason &lt;b&gt;is&lt;/b&gt; the goal.

And I know that I read at least one article in which a homeschooling mother was shocked that there was so little oversight when she began homeschooling.  She felt that was a problem.  Now, she may well change her mind over time (I don&#039;t remember how long she had been homeschooling), but it does make clear that even on government interference in the homeschool, we cannot really assume agreement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I will have to ponder on this, as I ponder on the sound of one hand clapping.</em></p>
<p>Great line, Tammy!  I think that is the perfect summary.</p>
<p>I think you are right.  There is a societal divide reflected in homeschooling&#8230;and perhaps it is intensified.  After all, I would venture to guess that the vast majority of homeschoolers homeschool out of their deep seated convictions in something.  Whatever that reason is, it is at the core of what we believe and what we want to accomplish in the world.  It isn&#8217;t something any of us will lay down for a political advantage or any other goal because that reason <b>is</b> the goal.</p>
<p>And I know that I read at least one article in which a homeschooling mother was shocked that there was so little oversight when she began homeschooling.  She felt that was a problem.  Now, she may well change her mind over time (I don&#8217;t remember how long she had been homeschooling), but it does make clear that even on government interference in the homeschool, we cannot really assume agreement.</p>
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		<title>By: Tammy Takahashi</title>
		<link>http://roscommonacres.com/2007/12/unity-in-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-4121</link>
		<dc:creator>Tammy Takahashi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 03:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=742#comment-4121</guid>
		<description>Dana - damn girl. Great post. Great discussion.

I&#039;m wondering, do you happen to notice the rift in the homeschooling community reflects the rift in our American community? Is this a homeschooling issue, or an American issue homeschooling style?

Sunniemom - you said that we can all agree on the fact that we have the right to educate without interference from the govt. Unfortunately, we can&#039;t even agree on that. What one person thinks is &quot;interference&quot; another thinks is just fine. To some, any law at all is interference, to others, certain laws are ok. To many, taxes aren&#039;t interferences, to others, it is very much interference. To some, universal preschool is interference, to others, an opportunity. We can&#039;t even agree on that basic tenet. (Not trying to start a fight on these issues. Simply stating that what we might see as basic homeschooling values aren&#039;t all that simple or straightforward.)

Perhaps, an effective strategy towards unity is to accept that we aren&#039;t united?

I will have to ponder on this, as I ponder on the sound of one hand clapping.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dana &#8211; damn girl. Great post. Great discussion.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m wondering, do you happen to notice the rift in the homeschooling community reflects the rift in our American community? Is this a homeschooling issue, or an American issue homeschooling style?</p>
<p>Sunniemom &#8211; you said that we can all agree on the fact that we have the right to educate without interference from the govt. Unfortunately, we can&#8217;t even agree on that. What one person thinks is &#8220;interference&#8221; another thinks is just fine. To some, any law at all is interference, to others, certain laws are ok. To many, taxes aren&#8217;t interferences, to others, it is very much interference. To some, universal preschool is interference, to others, an opportunity. We can&#8217;t even agree on that basic tenet. (Not trying to start a fight on these issues. Simply stating that what we might see as basic homeschooling values aren&#8217;t all that simple or straightforward.)</p>
<p>Perhaps, an effective strategy towards unity is to accept that we aren&#8217;t united?</p>
<p>I will have to ponder on this, as I ponder on the sound of one hand clapping.</p>
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		<title>By: Sunniemom</title>
		<link>http://roscommonacres.com/2007/12/unity-in-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-4120</link>
		<dc:creator>Sunniemom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:06:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=742#comment-4120</guid>
		<description>I know my attitude has changed slightly this week about there being unity in the homeschool movement. My hope is that folks who believe in homes education also believe that parents can and should guide their children as they see fit. But after reading comments on how creationists and Christians shouldn&#039;t be allowed to breed, much less teach, I am going to say that those hopes are very dim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know my attitude has changed slightly this week about there being unity in the homeschool movement. My hope is that folks who believe in homes education also believe that parents can and should guide their children as they see fit. But after reading comments on how creationists and Christians shouldn&#8217;t be allowed to breed, much less teach, I am going to say that those hopes are very dim.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://roscommonacres.com/2007/12/unity-in-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-4119</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:48:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=742#comment-4119</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your wise words, Kate. : )  Unity for the sake of unity is divisive.  I was just looking at some of the other controversy at the Carnival of Homeschooling with the victory of an anti-catholic website.

I think I could rewrite this post now, after the discussion...and maybe I&#039;ll add some concluding thoughts later...but I think that two things are important to remember:

1) The secular and Christian homeschooling movements each have different roots, different histories and different goals.

2) We never were united.

Would either side want to give up its philosophical ideals in order to be &quot;united?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your wise words, Kate. : )  Unity for the sake of unity is divisive.  I was just looking at some of the other controversy at the Carnival of Homeschooling with the victory of an anti-catholic website.</p>
<p>I think I could rewrite this post now, after the discussion&#8230;and maybe I&#8217;ll add some concluding thoughts later&#8230;but I think that two things are important to remember:</p>
<p>1) The secular and Christian homeschooling movements each have different roots, different histories and different goals.</p>
<p>2) We never were united.</p>
<p>Would either side want to give up its philosophical ideals in order to be &#8220;united?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kate</title>
		<link>http://roscommonacres.com/2007/12/unity-in-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-4118</link>
		<dc:creator>Kate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:27:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=742#comment-4118</guid>
		<description>Personally, I think unity is overrated and that pursuit of it is in fact a cause for division because it inevitably leads to someone saying &quot;I&#039;m all for unity but I don&#039;t want to be lumped in with (fill in the blank).&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I think unity is overrated and that pursuit of it is in fact a cause for division because it inevitably leads to someone saying &#8220;I&#8217;m all for unity but I don&#8217;t want to be lumped in with (fill in the blank).&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Renae</title>
		<link>http://roscommonacres.com/2007/12/unity-in-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-4117</link>
		<dc:creator>Renae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 18:38:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=742#comment-4117</guid>
		<description>The anti-spam word is slow. Ha! That is me exactly. I have been pondering a post for a week now.

I propose that we do have unity. At least, I hope with all my soul that we do.
http://reflective.homeschooljournal.net/2007/12/20/unity-in-diversity/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The anti-spam word is slow. Ha! That is me exactly. I have been pondering a post for a week now.</p>
<p>I propose that we do have unity. At least, I hope with all my soul that we do.<br />
<a href="http://reflective.homeschooljournal.net/2007/12/20/unity-in-diversity/" rel="nofollow">http://reflective.homeschooljournal.net/2007/12/20/unity-in-diversity/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://roscommonacres.com/2007/12/unity-in-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-4116</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=742#comment-4116</guid>
		<description>By the way, if no one has read it, take a moment to read Rebecca&#039;s post.  She makes a very good point about the divide between secular and Christian homeschoolers.  (And I know there are other groups...if anyone else wants to claim there place in the disunity they are more than welcome).

We represent two different movements with two different philosophical foundations.  There has never been unity.

And maybe the current controversy and the attempts to remain distinct are actually indicative that at least we acknowledge there is another side?

Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, if no one has read it, take a moment to read Rebecca&#8217;s post.  She makes a very good point about the divide between secular and Christian homeschoolers.  (And I know there are other groups&#8230;if anyone else wants to claim there place in the disunity they are more than welcome).</p>
<p>We represent two different movements with two different philosophical foundations.  There has never been unity.</p>
<p>And maybe the current controversy and the attempts to remain distinct are actually indicative that at least we acknowledge there is another side?</p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Dana</title>
		<link>http://roscommonacres.com/2007/12/unity-in-diversity/comment-page-1/#comment-4115</link>
		<dc:creator>Dana</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:49:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://principleddiscovery.com/?p=742#comment-4115</guid>
		<description>I think you&#039;ve only taken up about 2 minutes, so maybe you&#039;ve got 7.5 more great comments in you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;ve only taken up about 2 minutes, so maybe you&#8217;ve got 7.5 more great comments in you!</p>
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